Ghost Robotics CEO Talks Future and Mission of Armed Robots for US Armed Forces
In mid-October 2021, the Association of the United States Army (AUSA) conference was held in Washington. One of the participants was Ghost Robotics, which surprised everyone in 2016 with the agile and dynamic four-legged Minitaur robots created at the University of Pennsylvania.
Since then, Ghost has developed larger and more reliable «quadrupedal unmanned ground vehicles» suited to many applications, one of which is military. At the conference, the company demonstrated several of its Vision 60 robots with a set of protection-oriented payloads, including a system that is a remote-controlled rifle built for the robot by SWORD International.
The mere futuristic sight of a potentially lethal weapon on a four-legged robot provoked a very strong reaction in the media and on social networks, mostly negative. IEEE Spectrum spoke with Ghost Robotics CEO Jiren Parikh to learn his view on equipping militaries with armed autonomous robots.
Parikh was asked whether he could describe the level of autonomy of the robot and the level of autonomy of its payload.
“It is very important to separate them. SPUR, or the Special Purpose Unmanned Rifle from SWORD Defense, has no autonomy and no AI. It fires remotely, but a human has to do that. There is always an operator in the loop. SWORD's customers include special operations groups around the world. When SWORD reached out to us through a former special operations team member, the idea was to create a walking tripod that supports the concept. They needed a way to keep the person who would otherwise have to pull the trigger at some distance from the weapon, to minimize the danger they might face. We thought it was a great idea”
The company's robot is not autonomous either. It is controlled remotely by an operator who is located at a certain distance. It has the ability to avoid objects in the environment, because the company needed it to be able to walk around things and stay stable on unstructured terrain, and the operator has the ability to set GPS waypoints to move the robot to a specific location.
“There is no AI connected to targets or weapons, and we are not going to do that. We support SWORD Defense, as we support any other partner in the weapons, public safety, or enterprise sectors, and we do not intend to sell ammunition for the weapon”
Parikh said that the company has more than 20 government customers around the world from various agencies, both in the US and in other countries, which follow very strict rules. According to him, customers understand that they must be careful about what they deploy. The vast majority of Ghost's customers use the robots for CBRNE (detection of chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, or explosive substances), reconnaissance, target detection, confined-space and underground inspection, mapping, EOD safety (bomb disposal), wireless mesh networks, and perimeter security.
Ghost's devices are used for various applications where a better option is needed than tracked and wheeled robots, which are less maneuverable and capable. According to Ghost's CEO, the company sells the robots, and they can be used with any software: «Most likely, these are special groups and other special units carrying out confidential or classified operations in remote locations».
“We can only assume that many of our customers do really difficult and dangerous work. And remember that these are men and women who cannot talk about what they do with their families, who live under constant stress. So all we are trying to do is let them use our robot in the military and other government agencies to keep our people from getting hurt. That is what we promote. And if it is a weapon they need to attach to our robot to do their job, we are glad they will do it. This is no different from any other dual-use technology company that sells something to defense or other government agencies”
The publication's editor asked Parikh how what Ghost Robotics demonstrated at the AUSA conference functionally differs from other armed robotic platforms that have existed for more than 10 years. Jiren Parikh said that decades ago there were guided missiles, which were basically robots with weapons on them. However, people did not consider missiles to be robots. Recently, drones and ground robots with weapons have appeared. However, they had no legs, so they do not trigger the evolutionary memory of predators.
If you take into account science fiction films and social networks, which we do not control, the problem turns out to be people themselves: legged robots can be charming, but science fiction has made them frightening. Systems like this on legs will need to be gradually socialized over the next five to ten years. Parikh hopes that people will get used to such robots and understand their benefits for soldiers. Although some do look frightening, no one disputes that.
Asked whether he was worried that demonstrating armed legged robots would further worsen the perception problem and reduce the likelihood that people would accept these devices, Parikh replied: «In the short term, weeks or months, yes. I think if you are talking about a year or two, no. We will get used to these robots, as we did to armed drones; they just need to be socialized. If your robot had tracks instead of legs, no one would have paid attention to it. We just need to get used to robots with legs».
“I think these robots belong in the army. Our military is here to protect us, and there are women in the military who risk their lives every day to protect the United States and its allies. I do not want them to lack our robot with any payload, including weapon systems, if they need them to do their job and keep us safe. And if we saved one life because these people had our robot when they needed it, I think that is something to be proud of”
The Ghost CEO said that before joining the company, he did not pay attention to the amount of stress, upheaval, and pain that military personnel go through to protect people. Some of the security services personnel cannot disclose what they do, but all of their emotions are understandable when they talk about colleagues and comrades they have lost. The amount of energy these people put into protecting citizens is truly amazing, but we take it for granted.
Police have made no requests for weapons. According to Parikh, the uses of robots for law enforcement are CBRNE, reconnaissance of confined spaces and crime scenes, or sending a device to talk to people who are barricaded or involved in a hostage situation. However, in the US, police do not use armed robots. In other countries this is possible, but in the United States the armed forces are governed by a very strict set of rules.
Asked about his position on regulating lethal autonomous weapons, Jiren Parikh replied: «We are all for regulation. We are all for it. It is what should be in place right now. What the rules are, what can and cannot be done, how AI should be used, I think that is for politicians and the armed forces to decide. The question is whether the rest of the world will follow them, and so we must be realistic and must be ready to defend ourselves against rogue states or terrorist organizations who think otherwise. Burying your head in the sand is not the answer».
Finally, the company's CEO was asked whether Ghost would do anything differently in the future after the general reaction it has faced in recent days.
“We are very committed to what we do, and our team understands our mission. We are not going to react. And we are going to stick to our obligations to government customers from the US and other countries. We are going to help them do whatever is needed, with any payload that is required, to do their job and do it safely. We are very fortunate to live in a country where the use of military force is a last resort, and where the use of new technologies and weapons requires years of serious deliberation by the armed forces under civilian oversight”
